Islam is the religion of more than half of Europe, not by compulsion or force of arms, but simple acceptance. On the 27th September 1529, around 125,000 Ottoman Soldiers began besieging the city of Vienna, a major stronghold for the Holy Roman Empire. In this alternate history, the POD is set during the Siege of Vienna by the Ottoman Turks in 1529 (Not to be confused with the one in 1683). The Siege of Vienna in 1529 was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire, led by Suleiman the Magnificent, to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. The winged hussars wore feathered wooden arcs into a battle to intimidate the enemy. It seems rather more likely they’d end up bogged down in Lower Austria defending their conquest while the Russians, Poles and Venetians carved off pieces around their periphery. No French Revolution would have meant no Napoleon, who would have remained a junior officer in the artillery, bored and distracted on his native Corsica. See more ideas about battle of vienna, vienna, battle. Now, a victory at Vienna might have avoided these disasters. They charged the Ottomans who fled the scene. Contextu alize Example: Fall of the Roman Empire Who? My comment is still awaiting moderation?!!! The winged hussars wore feathered wooden arcs into a battle to intimidate the enemy. The second siege of vienna began, but the Ottomans had taken vienna, so Austria& Hungary collapsed. As A J P Taylor used to tell his students, “History is what those with power want you to believe has happened, not necessarily what actually happened”. At a time when travel by road was virtually impossible and sea travel dangerous and uncertain, by controlling the Danube as far as Germany, the most important commercial route to the east would have been in Ottoman hands. (Image: Imgur) D uring the summer of 1683, the Ottoman Turks were besieging Vienna. Matthias Church in Budapest, Hagia Sophia in Istanbul); why do you see no large, opulent cathedrals in ex-Ottoman cities such as Sofia and Belgrade dating back from Ottoman or pre-Ottoman times? and the knowledge that it spreads! The Ottoman troops were tired and dispirited following the failure of both the attempt at sapping and the assault on the city and the advance of the Holy League infantry on the Turkenschanz. Bakers Celebrate. Siege of Vienna, (July 17–September 12, 1683), expedition by the Ottomans against the Habsburg Holy Roman emperor Leopold I that resulted in their defeat by a combined force led by John III Sobieski of Poland.The lifting of the siege marked the beginning of the end of Ottoman domination in eastern Europe.. From that would have flowed great riches and even greater influence. The Siege of Vienna. they are so ahead of their times! Much of what we think we know is actually a blend of propaganda, selective remembrance and downright lies. But there’s just no way that an Ottoman victory in 1683 would have led to an Ottoman super-empire dominating everything east of “a line from Denmark to Italy”. The different religious groups lived together in peace and even amity, but there was neither formal nor informal equality. If King Jan III Sobieski of Poland had not arrived in Vienna on 12th September 1683, the dynamics of global power would have been entirely different Religion is part of the life blood of this different Europe, but as something that sustains not divides. However, after the 10th century, little tolerance for other religions was left in Andalusia when the Almohads took control. Meanwhile the Hapsburg Emperor Leopold I assembled a coalition including several German princes and the Polish King Jan Sobieski. I would also agree that the Ottoman Empire was already overstretched during that time, and by that time the Europeans had caught up with them in science/technology (remember that they were considered to have stopped being a threat to Europe after the second siege of Vienna). Thread starter kazeuma; Start date Nov 12, 2017; Tags battle ottomans vienna won; Home. Dec 16, 2020 - Explore Bill Barber's board "Battle of Vienna", followed by 407 people on Pinterest. They laid siege to the city in July. Vienna has fallen and Kara Mustafa Pasha’s forces have occupied the city. Sipahis of the Ottoman Empire at Vienna, in battle, holding the Crescent Banner (by Józef Brandt). The world faces a time of pluck and pull for wealth and power. We would be thousands of years ahead in literature, politics, science…etc. “No threat from the Austrian Habsburgs would have freed the Bourbons from the threat and expense of war,”. Flag of the Ottoman Islamic empire. But what might have happened if the Poles had failed to arrive in time? Reclaim Your Stage: Therefore, the statement that “if al Andalusia never fell from Muslim Rule the world would have been by far more advanced than we see today” is simply incorrect. Our pieces offer challenging opinions from a range of spectrums; that’s why we love hosting a platform for them. The victory at Vienna set the stage for the reconquest of Hungary and (temporarily) some of the Balkan lands in the following years by Louis of Baden, Maximilian Emmanuel of Bavaria and Prince Eugene of Savoy. Best of luck with your ‘O’ levels. If that great seat of learning had been allowed to prosper and grow at a time when religious bigotry in Christendom was hindering intellectual development, who knows what advances there might have been in Mathematics, Astronomy and Science. Suleiman and his army had arrived after a long trudge and had come through heavy rains with limited supplies. Less than three hours after the cavalry attack, the Christian forces had won the battle and saved Vienna. Second, the Hapsburg Emperor Leopold showed considerable skill at building and holding together a multi-power coalition — including Venice, Poland, and Russia — against the Ottoman threat. By 1686 Vienna would have started to look like other European cities under Ottoman rule such as Belgrade, with minarets starting to appear and traders from Anatolia and the east establishing new businesses and trading enterprises. In the summer of 1683, the main army of the Ottoman Empire, a large and well-equipped force, besieged Vienna. The Tsar of Russia, confronted by a strong and prosperous Ottoman Empire on the western and southern borders would have had to meet the needs of the vast population and deal with social inequality. The historic defeat at Vienna led to a series of catastrophes for the Ottomans, from the second battle of Mohacs to the fall of Belgrade and the Russian seizure of Azov. It all ended with the humiliating treaty of Karlowitz, by which the Ottomans lost Hungary, Transylvania, Azov, the Morea, and all the Adriatic north of Montenegro. The battle of Vienna or siege of Vienna in 1683 changed the course of European history forever. No Napoleon would have meant that England could have remained at peace from the 1780s to 1815 and almost certainly able to retain the American colonies. The Hapsburgs inherited all the Low Countries together in the early 1500s, but in 1560 the northern part — what is now “the Netherlands” — broke away. On the political front, the Ottoman Empire had been providing military assistance to the Hungarians and to non-Catholic minorities in Habsburg-occupied portions of Hungary.There, in the years preceding the siege, widespread unrest had become open rebellion upon Leopold I's pursuit of Counter-Reformation principles and his desire to crush Protestantism. In 1683 all of the Balkans, together with large parts of Hungary and the Ukraine, formed the western edge of the Ottoman Empire, ruled from Constantinople by Sultan Mehmet IV. The Caliphate never ended, it is but a few years of suppression in comparison to prior years in history. The empire was already suffering the internal problems that would send it into steady relative decline over the next 200 years. Hungary and Persia did because they were right nextdoor to the bastards and were overwhelmed. Perhaps electricity in the 15th century, or radio in the 16th, or powered flight in the 17th? He commited suicide rather than give the Romans the satisfaction of capturing him. :661 The cavalry charge was one last deadly blow. See more ideas about battle of vienna, vienna, battle. Generals and admirals were “turning Turk” as late as the 19th century — Josef Bem, the second best general of the Hungarian War of Independence, did it in 1849. There is a caliphate that stretches from Basra to Berlin with imposing centuries-old mosques in Vienna, Linz, Budapest and Warsaw. And Vienna and Venice both never fell to the Ottomans. So even if Austria is knocked completely out of the game, the Bourbons are going to have plenty of wars. If Vienna and Venice, both much easier to get any army to than the rest of Italy could hold out against the Ottomans then I don't think simply possessing Malta is going to spell sudden doom for Italy. Also, Silesia is drained by the Oder, not the Danube. Posted by: David Gilbertson QPM The Vizier was an arrogant man and known for his cruelty. The Siege of Vienna, in 1529, was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. If King Jan III Sobieski of Poland had not arrived in Vienna on 12th September 1683, the dynamics of global power would have been entirely different. It is November 2013. First off, the Hapsburgs would still own Spain, the Spanish Netherlands, Upper Austria, half of Dalmatia, Slovenia, large chunks of Italy, and of course their immense extra-European empire in the New World and the Philippines. For nearly two long months, from July 14 to early September 1683, Vienna endured the siege from the Ottoman Empire. Such a pity, if only we could restart that wheel of advancing mankind forward in terms of knowledge. Before 1683, the central and lower Danube — over 1500 miles of it, all the way down to the Black Sea — had already been in Ottoman hands for 150 years. I guess honesty is not a valued attribute of the Platform. Kara … Or, Ottoman forces might have used Vienna as a staging point for further penetration of the Danube valley. Although the Austrians at first appear successful, they sustain hea… The true record is a distortion, but we are unaware of this fact and its implications for us all today. Fought against the Ottoman empire and led by Polish King Jan III Sobieski, this achievement forbid the Ottomans from taking over the continent. You need to explain why the fall of a single city, however strategically important, would cause all these allies to abandon the fight. It becomes rapidly obvious that Wheatcroft has certain biases early on: The Ottomans were awesome (with the notable exceptions of Mehmed IV and Kara Mustafa) as an empire and a military power; the Habsburgs were middling mediocrities (with the exception of … But if we play the game a bit more, what about Mohacs and Azov going the other way courtesy of defectors from the Western Europe accepting senior positions in the Sultan’s armed force bringing their technology with them? by Ludwig Heinrich Dyck. Fought against the Ottoman empire and led by Polish King Jan III Sobieski, this achievement forbid the Ottomans from taking over the continent. Question: Who won the Siege of Vienna? Let us imagine the historical counter-factual. It involved the army of the Ottoman Empire, led by Suleiman the Magnificent. What If the Ottomans had Won in 1683? Their code of ethics, the way they dress (the best and most expensive of fashion!) If this “mind game” is supposed to be a proper case of cause and effect then I can only snicker. They couldn’t pull that off even in the 1500s, when they were stronger and Europe was weaker. Tags: Image from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_miniature, Ouster of Elected Egyptian President Is a Hammer Blow to Arab Democracy. — Um. And it’s not too late folks,,,,they still have lots to give us, if we let them…. In June 1683 the Ottomans were at the gates of the city of their European dreams-Vienna. It was the policy of the ottomans to convert the largest/most beautiful church in a newly conquered city (e.g. The Ottomans were already in decline,and had been for some time.The resurgence under the Kopruli Grand Viziers ended with their deaths,and so even if Vienna had been taken in 1683,Turk gains would have been temporary rather than permanent. Close. Despatch-riders have set off for Constantinople to announce the victory and to call upon the Sultan to send reinforcements to garrison his new prize. And Venice was still a major power during that time, I doubt that it would fall too easily from an Ottoman attack. I’m not sure I agree with you about the Danube, because taking Vienna and Lower Austria would have meant that the Ottomans, for the first time, would have had control of the vital produce coming-up river towards France and the German states, from Silesia and Saxony, which became increasingly significant in the early 18th century. I don’t see how seizing Lower Austria gives the Ottomans either Silesia or Saxony. What a desert of intelligence……. 17th century, during one of the conflicts between Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Ottoman Empire. Thus by mid-18th century, on either side of a line that might have been drawn between Denmark and Italy, Europe would have been divided between a newly-empowered and immensely-rich Muslim Ottoman Empire to the east and a much diminished western Europe. The Ottomans … In 1529 the Ottoman Empire made a determined effort to capture Vienna, the capital of the Hapsburg Austrian Empire. Commanded by Grand Vizier Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha and Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent himself, the soldiers managed to inflict some damage on the city however as the time passed on the prospects of victory began to drain out. we would all see that the mafiosi are the best of people. 25. The Imp… “At a time when travel by road was virtually impossible and sea travel dangerous and uncertain, by controlling the Danube as far as Germany, the most important commercial route to the east would have been in Ottoman hands. It all ended with the humiliating treaty of Karlowitz, by which the Ottomans lost Hungary, Transylvania, Azov, the Morea, and all the Adriatic north of Montenegro. And if the real truth were to be told; the real truth! To give a voice to young muslims and the wider muslim community by creating a platform for a one sided and biased narrative. On the other hand, the Ottomans would still have been badly overextended and overstrained. etc. His brother-in-law, Archduke Ferdinand I of Austria, brother of Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, claimed the vacant Hungarian throne. UMN Intl Rep. Archived. I would have no doubt if the Ottomans had captured Rome the first thing they would have done was to convert St Peter’s Basilica, one of the Catholicism’s holiest Churches, into a mosque. One of the main reasons why the Ottomans failed to seize Vienna, was poor leadership. 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